I find there to be profound wisdom in proverbs, sayings and quotes and I marvel at the way they are so succinct in communicating messages to the reader. Mostly anonymous, they come to us from past generations and from across cultures. They speak of the experiences of lives lived and lessons learned. Quotes, like proverbs, make us think more deeply about something.
Each Thursday, I post a Proverb or Saying and a quote that I find thought-provoking.
I hope you think so too.
Do not lengthen the quarrel while there is an opportunity of escaping-
Latin Proverb
I do like this proverb.
It could be helpful in all situations, both personally and diplomatically. Some of us need to have the last word, or feel if we say just one more thing, it will convince the other party of our view, or our righteousness. Why is it so hard for some people to walk away from a quarrel, and other’s not?
Is this the only interpretation of this proverb? Perhaps you can find a deeper layer?
Join in the discussion, by leaving a comment below.
The quote this week, is something I do fully agree with. Knowledge is empowering.
Even my dog agrees!!
“Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world”-
Nelson Mandela
Do you agree with Nelson Mandela’s words?
Proverbial Thursday – Something to Ponder About
Something to Ponder About 
I need to learn this one sometimes, Amanda. But I rarely quarrel. I hate arguing or quarreling
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I don’t think anyone particularly likes a quarrel, Dai. But there are some who like to hear their own voice more than others, and force their views on others. I think angry people who quarrel have either anxiety or frustration or perhaps, both. It is difficult to tolerate quarreling, as it denigrates the other person’s right to an opinion that might differ from one’s own.
Appreciate your contribution to the discussion, Dai.
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I think we all know people who feel the need to have the last word, I certainly do. I’ve always felt the person who can lift their head and walk away from a situation is the stronger 😊 Nelson Mandela has some amazing quotes although I believe in this world at the moment, more people are in need of Empathy x
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Stronger and emotionally more intelligent is the person who can walk away and or bite their lip in an argument.
I also think you are so right in that the world is in need of much more empathy from many quarters. The tensions between people that differ from ourselves in some way is so unnecessary. We see fear being used as a political tool to divide and separate, time and time again. I think empathy will be a valued skill more and more in the future. I think education could also work to develop more empathy in the general public. Information and knowledge might allow us to better judge and reach a balanced conclusion on issues. To connect to the proverb, a person that is able to walk away from a quarrel when the opportunity arises, would indicate strength and empathy.
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Beautifully said
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Thank you!!
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yes Forestwoodfolk for me this sounds right, but I is there a need to go away? Going away sounds for me like, I´m angry, a go away…there is no need to be angry if s.o. has a different opinion. O.k. it depend also on the subject, if it is something really important or not.
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yes marvel – you have an excellent point. Walking away can be interpreted by the ‘receiver’ in a variety of ways and not the always the way it was intended. Walking away could be interpreted as ignorance or distancing oneself from the other person. Communication is the key here, I think. Validating the other person’s response/rught to a difference of opinion in a calm manner, and then explaining the reason for walking away might be a way to handle the situation? If course if emotions are heightened it is very difficult. What do you think?
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I think I often have the last word. But I do not really argue and I do not insist that my opinion is the right one. I also like to be teached, because I definately have a lack of knowledge in lots of things,and would like to know more.
Yes, and Mandela’s words are, in my opinion, absolutely true. Only education and clearing up can change the world. There will never be peace, tolerance and responsibility in the world as long as only a few powerful people determine what is happening in the world. All must be able to speak, all must show tolerance and love.
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I really like your final sentence. “All must be able to speak, all must show tolerance and love. Wonderful sentiment. Everyone has value!! But what happens when you met someone else who likes to have the last word?
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shall I answer..; )…? Well he can have the last word, Before he gets angry I stop. A saying from my grandma: You are right and I have some peace and quiet. It is not possible to have the same opinion all the time or?
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I like your comment, because it is so true. It is not possible to have the same opinion all the time. Differences of perspectives can be an opportunity to look at things from another viewpoint that we might not have thought of, this far. They don’t always have to end in conflict. It might become a quarrel if ego gets caught up in that mix. The feeling of having to be right is sometimes intrinsically tied to our self-concept and not everyone deals with criticism well. They might take it as a personal affront. It often also depends on the tone and words in which the criticism, or difference of opinion, is delivered, a to how positively or negatively it is interpreted. It can be a hallmark of an emotionally mature person if criticism is taken and handled well.
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This is interesting and very thoroughly thought and sounds very right.
You have certainly a emotional maturity if you can deal with criticism well. I would also like to assert that people, who think themselves much more intense and interested in thoughts, basically also have a firmer and reasoned opinion that applies to them. The confrontation with another opinion is a lot harder than if you have not even thought about the topic before. Lot of people do not even have a fix opinion, and are still willing to learn. For them, a special emotional maturity with critizm is often not necessary at all.
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True words, Marvel! Many are fence sitters and are not of one opinion or the other, or at least don’t vocalize it. Then there are still others for whom many subjects are taboo and can’t be publicly discussed. Those who have no set opinion but have an open mind is a great option. Even better is weighing up each viewpoint and then respecting that others might see the issue/s differently. Thanks for an excellent discussion
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Ich danke ebenso, und freue mich über Deine Erklärungen. Weighing up each viewpoint and respecting is surely the best thing! I think, the prerequisite for this is the understanding, language-formulated and intellectually unspoken. If there is a lacks here I wonder if an open head is sufficient?
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An open mind always has the potential for more possibilities and therefore a better chance of learning.
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“An open mind always has the potential for more possibilities and therefore a better chance of learning.”…thank you Forestwoodfolk..and there are some people who are not even able to write in one language…sorry for the german start in the last comment.
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No worries!! It is nice to read a little language other than English
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The quotes are brilliant, both of them. I consider Nelson Mandela a true hero and gentleman. Had to laugh—your dog reads and ours watches television.
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Well of course, our dogs are smart. They are Schnauzers after all!! Lol! I think Nelson Mandela was really inspirational. Going through those years of torture and hard labor must have been incredibly difficult. I do remember seeing a documentary where he was quite abrupt and impatient which shattered my illusions of the hero somewhat. This was in his declining years, so perhaps he had exhausted his tolerance? But his quote I believe to be exceedingly true, particularly in regards to women. Educating woman in the third world can change the world for the better. In reference to the first quote, I imagine you to be quite a jolly person. Conflict/quarrels would be rare, I suspect.
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Yes, I think Nelson got grumpier in his old age. A South African friend has confirmed that. I agree that educating girls and women is critical. We were so impressed with Craigburn Primary School’s fundraising campaign ‘Do it in a dress’ to support education for girls in Africa.
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Unless one is in a debate.
Education is indeed powerful. But it can also be a double edged sword. Lots of people with good education employ their knowledge to unsavory activities… education with character is more powerful.
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There will always be an element in society who use their intelligence for nefarious means, instead of for the good of the community. These people are often selfish and or ambitious, and lack a sense of empathy. I think media often inadvertently fuels these drives, Mel and Suan. When the focus is on the long term benefit of the community rather than ‘what is in it for me?’ – type of thinking, education is always positive. Without empathy for fellow human beings, educational benefits might be detrimental. There was a right wing hard line conservative journalist gent in Australia who was so embittered and mean, until he went on a reality TV program where he was part of a group surviving in the jungle. I feel like it was, in this situation, that he learnt the value of community and his whole outlook completely changed. Amazing. He learnt so much about others and on interdependence in community, thereby educating him in intra- personal relationships. He developed empathy and a more understanding perspective. So interesting!!
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Sometimes it is true we might have to learn things the “hard” way. Which is why education with character is critical. We may not succeed in building empathy in all but we must try.
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Trying is the important part. Some good things rub off with a skilled teacher, even if the listener doesn’t heed them or put them into practice straight away. Any knowledge is better than none, do you agree? But totally agree, we can’t build empathy in all.
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The Latin proverb is quite simple in its honesty and veracity. Some arguments or disputes just aren’t worth pursuing. They’re simply unwinnable in many cases. People can respectfully agree to disagree or reach some kind of compromise, if you’re dealing with business or politics. An individual who won’t budge from the position isn’t necessarily obstinate or dense; they’re often just passionate about that particular subject. But they can still be wrong. For example, several years ago, during an online health class I had to take in pursuit of my college degree, the subject of infant circumcision was presented in the text. Everyone agreed that cutting up the genitals of infant and toddler girls is inhumane and potentially deadly. But, with the subject of male circumcision arose, there was suddenly a debate. The usual subject of cultural and religious objections fell into the mix – something I hear all the time and which I expected in this debate.
I was only one of four men in the class, and one other man voiced an opinion: that he believed in male circumcision for cultural and religious reasons. When I asked what that meant, or at least what it meant to him, he never answered. The other two men in the class remained silent during the entire discussion, which got very heated between me and two of the women in the course.
One spit out the usual mythological rhetoric of penile and vaginal cancer prevention and even added the latest notion from circumcision proponents that it prevents the spread of HIV. I pointed out that HIV is a blood-borne pathogen, and – if anything – circumcision could exacerbate the problem. I mentioned a study done on some Ugandan men around 2006. A group of doctors convinced about 1,000 uncircumcised HIV+ men to get circumcised. The premise was that the surgery would somehow miraculously lessen the viral load in their bloodstream. What naïve genius – or group of geniuses – developed that theory remains unknown, but I pointed out that the study was conducted primarily by a large group of mostly White and mostly female American and European doctors and nurses on a group of uneducated, mostly illiterate African men. More importantly, many of the men mistakenly believed they were now cured of HIV and jumped back into social circles to engage in unprotected sex with women who generally have no economic or political power in a mostly-patriarchal nation with a very low standard of living, a very literacy rate and a health care system that’s rudimentary at best. Then the researchers were – for some ungodly reason – surprised that the rate of HIV infection in some of these men’s social circles had increased. I mean, who could have seen that coming?! (No pun intended.)
But the final insult to me came when one of the women who’d given birth to a boy shortly before starting the class jumped into the gutter and mentioned that, when she was originally in college, her and her female friends all agreed that an “uncircumcised penis is ugly.” Another woman stated she’d listened to a radio program by talk show host Wendy Williams who had brought up this very subject. Williams apparently felt the same about uncircumcised men and had stated women who are thinking about getting serious in a relationship with a man should actually ask him up front whether or not he’s circumcised of or not. How do you bring up something like that on a dinner date?!
I told both women their comments were offensive to me personally; that my body is neither ugly nor dirty. I also suggested the first woman get one of her compact mirrors and take a good look at her own genitalia. The human genitalia is built for function, not appearance. You’re supposed to work with it – not just look at it. I reminded the other woman that women often become incensed when men demean them according to their physical appearance. I recounted the story of one man I worked with several years before who told me he severed a relationship with a young woman because she had ugly toes. Everything else apparently was perfect about her, but her toes forced him to let her go. I told him that was one of the stupidest things I’d ever heard.
My point is that I’m firm on certain subjects. This is just one of them, and I knew I was right. I know all about it – not just from my own personal experience – but also because of the myriad research I’ve done over the years. It affects me personally, so I have to know about it. Unlike most men in the U.S., I know more about my body than I do about my vehicle. The two women kept insisting otherwise and just wouldn’t admit they were wrong from a factual standpoint.
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Such an interesting and comprehensive analogy to the proverbs, Alejandro and I thank you for disclosing details which do exemplify your statement that it is not merely ignorance our lack of education, or opportunity that causes an individual to have a closed mind, but rather that they might also be particularly passionate about the subject, be that rightly or wrongly, in another’s eyes. The discussion around circumcision is always an emotive one as anything that can be tied to religions tradition, can be. Some of the reasoning, is ridiculous, insulting and dangerous if looked at from a logical point of view, which, personally for me is always an overriding arbiter. And it also concerns the concept of ‘body image’and the obsession of image and what people think comprises, a large part of, a good self-concept. This part of the debate is tricky. I abhore the guy’s thinking who couldn’t get past the ‘ugly toes’ and the people who place beauty about functionality (in regard to the appearance of genitalia). How crazy is it to have a world of beautiful people whose urinary or reproductive systems do not work? In this matter , their self esteem is all in their ‘head!’ And that is what they perhaps, might work on, before working on their bodies. I can see that the increasing predilection for changing, altering and sculpting the body in modern times, has its roots in this way of thinking. If a person has a gross disfigurement or bodily part that has impaired function, then corrective surgery might be deemed beneficial or even necessary, but why operate or ‘mutilate’ something, that works perfectly well? When my son was born, I thought he was perfect in every way, so why does nature needs to be improved or changed with circumcision ? Our bodies have functioned well as they are, for millenniums.
The treatment of the Africans sounds like some kind of medical experiment that belongs in nineteenth century, and I am disgusted that it was inflicted upon them, and with such terrible consequences for the women and the whole population. Just heartbreakingly tragic. I could say a lot more but I will try to keep relevance to the proverb.
It is clear that some people allow pride or customs to get in the way of sound and rational decision making. Do you think the two women were unable to entertain another perspective because of their background? Were they poorly informed or perhaps they had been fed information that was terrible one sided in the past? Was their self concept tied to the current concept of beauty? Fashion trends so quickly change and what is considered beautiful today, might be extremely transient. Just yesterday, I saw a post on social media about voluntary tongue bifurcation. Another example of changing one’s body from its natural state. Will that person be a happier person with a split tongue? Will they contribute more to the world with a split tongue? Was a fully functioning tongue holding them back from progression in their life in some way? Again it seems to be related to something that’s going on in their way of thinking?
Whilst I feel it is important to have the freedom to choose, and keep an open mind, it seems also valid to say that there are boundaries to this for each and every person. How much is too much? Every Person will probably have a non -negotiable limit and in this way, their opinion is fixed and cannot be changed. Whether that opinion or issue is right or wrong’ is more an ethical or perhaps a psychological question? I applaud your research on your own body. Knowledge is a counterpoint to prejudice or opinions based on traditional bias or historical or cultural biaa. Those with a dogmatic or hard core approach must question whether the decision will be the best one, not just at that moment in history but will it also hold fast well into the future when opinions fashion trends and customs change?
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The Mandela quote is also quite simple. Once people become educated about something, their view and comprehension of the world change. They’re no longer guided by such elements as religion or government and therefore, are enlightened. Both Afghanistan and North Korea are perfect examples. In Afghanistan, cultural forces keep women mired in second-class status. Without any real education, women in these societies are subjected to the whims and desires of their male counterparts. In places like North Korea, the people are oppressed by brutal dictatorships, which starve them of true knowledge and information. In all of these societies government and religion are tools used to keep the populations imprisoned in perpetual states of ignorance. Individuals are instructed not to question the self-anointed authoritarians. The ideology becomes a blind faith.
Eventually, though, at least one person will question what’s happening – often at the risk of their own lives. But such risks are necessary to free people from the shackles of perilous naiveté and to move society forward.
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Control in its many forms is often used as a means of securing and maintain power. The power of one individual over another. One sector of the population over the another. There always seems to be dominant and passive sides. Complete equality is illusive but worthwhile fighting for. Education changes lives more often for the better. Even if the education is propaganda and terrible one sided, that one person who questions authority is the spark that turns into a flame. It is therefore necessary to hold the right to rebel ( without force) as a fundamental human right.
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